The Truth, The Whole Truth
&
Nothing But The Truth
© 2000
Barry Zalma
How to Use The Art & Science of the Interview
To Uncover The Truth About Anything From Anyone
ISBN: 1-884770--23-1
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Nothing But the Truth
Table of Contents
Introduction
The Interview Is an Essential Form of Fact Gathering for Every Type of Human Interaction
The Interview is an Art
Nothing But the Truth 4
Chapter 1
Informal Interviews
Interviewing Is A Part of Every Day Life
The First Social Meeting
When a Manager Meets With a Subordinate
When the Manager Needs Information From Subordinate
When the Subordinate Needs Information from the Manager
When Two Business People Meet
The Chairman-of-the-Board and the Board of Directors
When a Spouse Returns Home From a Long Day at Work
Interviewing is an Art
Information is Power
Chapter 2
The Art of Interview
Interviewing by a Professional Is an Art, Not a Science
Learning to be an Effective Interviewer Takes Practice and Study of the Fundamentals of Interviewing Technique
The Most Important Factor in an Interview Is the Interviewer
Chapter 3
General Principles
A Professional Creates Order in the Interview
The Witness
The Interviewer
The Subject of the Interview
Interview Maxims
Every Interview Should Be Completed as if There Were No Physical Evidence To Aid The Interviewer
Body Language
Always Be in Command
The Most Important Skill an Interviewer Can Learn Is to Listen to What the Witness Says
The Interviewer Must Be a Good Listener
Chapter 4
The Interviewer
Interviewing Is an Art Practiced by a Professional
The Professional Learns
Interviewing Resembles a Science
Caveat
Keep Control
Maintain Proper Perspective
The Professional Must Have Faith In His or Her Abilities
The Effective Interviewer
Qualifications of an Interviewer
The Professional must be a GREAT actor!
The Interview is a Sales Presentation
Salesmanship For the Professional Interviewer
Sell yourself thoroughly on your product
Like the customer
Before starting the interview the interviewer should Develop an actual empathy and interest in the witness
Compliment the Customer
Proper Mental Attitude
The First Rule of Salesmanship Is to Sell Yourself
Chapter 5
The Interview
What is an Interview?
The Basic Principle Behind the Interview Is That No One Can Successfully Lie Consistently to an Experienced and Prepared Interviewer!
Who, What, Where, When, Why & How?
Chapter 6
Preparation For The Interview
Before the Interview Begins
Preparation
Necessary Background Information
Examples of Collection of Pertinent Information About Witness Available Before The Start of the Interview
Pertinent Information About Relevant Facts Before The Start of the Interview
Information Sources Used to Prepare for the Interview
Information About the Subject of the Interview Available Before the Interview Begins
Have a Plan
The Plan
Chapter 7
Starting The Interview
The Importance of a Good Opening
Privacy
Introducing Yourself
Addressing the Witness
The Interviewer's Attitude
Be Alert, Observe, Determine Action
Indirect Questioning
Delivery
Word Phrasing
The Back Handed Compliment
Chapter 8
Control
It is The Essence of the Interview For the Interviewer to Be In Control of the Interview
Taking Control When Meeting the Witness
Keeping Control
Chapter 9
Make Only Promises You Can Keep
The Professional Never Makes A Promise That the Interviewer Knows Cannot Be Fulfilled
Chapter 10
Changing a Witness' Emotion
The Witness Must Be In the Proper Emotional State To Tell the Truth and Nothing but the Truth
The Emotionally Upset Witness
Establishing Rapport
The Joker or Wise Guy Witness
Chapter 11
Bluffs
The Bluff Is A Technique Used by Interviewers That Is Often Successful
Keep It Simple
Bluffs Are Dangerous In a Non-Criminal Investigation Interview
The Bluff Should Never Be Used When There are No Facts to Support the Bluff
Chapter 12
No Comfort
A Cardinal Rule of a Police Interview Is to Offer No Comfort to the Witness
The Professional Conducting a Civil Investigation Does Not Have the Power of a Police Officer
Take The Time Needed
Chapter 13
Dealing with the "Cool Customer" Witness and Other Difficulties
Some Witnesses Are More Difficult than Others
Various Effective Approaches
The Silent Approach
The Fishing Approach
Never Interrupt a Narrative
The Direct Accusation Approach
Accomplice Approach
` Blame Approach
Pride Approach
Degrading Approach
We All Make Mistakes Approach
Laughing Approach
"You Deserve to Get the Worst" Approach
Approaches Must Be Custom-Made to a Particular Situation and Witness For The Interview To Be Successful
Chapter 14
Dealing With The Nervous Witness
Fear of Failure or Punishment Are Found in All Who Are New to Insurance Fraud or Other White Collar Crimes
Behavior Patterns of the Nervous Witness
The Clothing Manicurist
The Gulper
He of the Insatiable Thirst
The Leg Fidgeter
Did You Put an Electric Spark in My Chair?
I Just Can't Remember
The Rhythm Maker
Signs of General Nervousness
My Blood Pressure Medicine Effects My Memory
What Would My Family Think of Me If They Found Out I Was Involved in Fraud?
Who, Me?
I Was Brought up Strictly; I Would Never Dare Lie
Why Would I Do Such a Thing?
The Attitude of the Interviewer
Do Not Fake A Concern for the Witness
The Interviewer's Position
Some Effective Approaches An Interviewer Can Use On A Nervous Witness
The Direct Accusation Approach
The Nervous Behavior Approach
The "You Have A Motive" Approach
The "I Would Probably Have Done The Same Thing" Approach
The "Lots of People Do What You Did" Approach
The Religious Approach
The "You Remind Me of My Brother" Approach
The Mutual Interests and Hobbies Approach
The "Be a Man" Approach
The Time Required
Chapter 15
Ending The Interview
Variables that Determine the Length of an Interview
Physical Condition of the Witness
The Subject of the Inquiry
The Reaction of the Witness
Use of a Second Interviewer
Approaches For a Second Interviewer
Accusatory Approach
The "Good Cop/Bad Cop" Technique
Chapter 16
Sources of Information
Neighbors
An Insurance Agent or Broker
The Insurer's Inspection Service
Accountants and Bookkeepers
Barbers, Grocers, Butchers, Mechanics, Hair Dressers, Bartenders, or Manicurist
Chapter 17
The Danger of Relying on Memory
Memories or Testimony Created by the Interviewer
Confabulation
Memory Distortion
Chapter 18
False Beliefs
Example
Example
Example
Example
Suggestibility
Innocent Deception & Lies
Chapter 19
Review
Interview is an Art
Interview is Like a Science
Keep Control of Yourself
Maintain Proper Perspective
Have Faith In Yourself
Be Prepared
Evaluating the Interview
Was the Witness Truthful?
APPENDIX
Interview Number 1
Interview Number 2
Fictional Interviews
Insurance Fraud For Profit
Candy & Abel
The Interview Is an Essential Form of Fact Gathering for Every Type of Human Interaction.
The Interview is a structured conversation. It is not an interrogation. It is not the stuff of spy films, police investigations, or prisoner of war camps. Interviews are everywhere. Interviewing is an art. Use of methods similar refines it to those used by scientists conducting experiments.
Everyone has been interviewed. Everyone has, at some point in his or her life, interviewed someone.
The first experience anyone has with an interview was mother to child:
"Where have you been?"
"Out."
"What did you do?"
"Nothing."
Mothers are seldom skillful interviewers. They usually obtain, like the interview above, almost no information from the child interviewed.
The search for knowledge could have been more informative if the interviewer had learned techniques used by professionals. Using such techniques, the interview should have gone like this:
"Where have you been?"
"Out."
"Where?"
"Outside."
"I see your clothes are wet. How did that happen?"
"Josh's friend, Willie, splashed me."
"Where was Willie?"
"In his tank."
"Tank?"
"You know, at the aquarium."
"Oh, yes. And you and Josh went to see Willie?"
"Yes, they are best of friends."
"And Willie splashed you?"
"He was hungry, and as we held fish over the side of the tank Willie would come out of the water and take them from us. He's big, you know, and splashes."
"Does Willie work at the aquarium?"
"Of course, Mom. Willie is a Killer Whale."
The unskilled interviewer only learned that her five-year-old son was "out." The experienced and skillful interviewer learned where he had gone and what he had done.
Mothers interview sons. Children interview parents. Teachers interview students. Students interview teachers. Employers interview employees. Store clerks interview customers. Customers interview store clerks. Everyone who wants to know something from someone interviews the other person to obtain information.
We live in a time when information is essential to survive. The person who is curious and applies one or more of the techniques set out in this book will have more information than his competitors. With more information, the interviewer or his or her client can make intelligent decisions.
When Edward Lloyd opened his coffee shop in the shipping center of the city of London, England he knew information was the essence of insurance. An Underwriter who was not fully informed lost his investment.
Because his customers needed to be fully informed, Mr. Lloyd kept a chalk board in his coffee shop on which they would write the latest intelligence concerning shipping at the port of London. Insurance underwriters, customers of Mr. Lloyd, could gather much of the information they needed to properly evaluate the risks their customers asked them to take. As insurance, and the people who bought insurance, became more sophisticated, underwriters found a need to gather and evaluate information more efficiently.
They borrowed techniques from detectives at Scotland Yard. They developed techniques that were unique to insurance. Insurers found that they needed trained investigators before they could properly evaluate a claim. They learned that minimal investigation before they took a risk could save enormously expensive investigation after the loss.
Other businesses, faced with fraud, embezzlement, employee dishonesty, and competition found that accurate information was necessary to operate a competitive business. In every business the gathering of intelligence about the business and its competitors is essential. News organizations like Reuters, UP, AP, the radio and television networks, CNN, Fox News, and the Internet were all designed to provide credible and useful information.
News reporters must be consummate interviewers. If news is not gathered in a reliable fashion by skilled interviewers, it will be useless and the news organization will lose all credibility.
Businesses who wish to compete effectively must have intelligence about the marketplace and its competitors. Accurate information is the life's blood of any business. Gathering accurate information is important to the insurer, the retail sales organization, the manufacturer, the corner grocery store or the mother who wants to know where her children have been and what they have done. The purpose of this book is to help anyone learn how to get the truth about anything from anyone. The reader who applies the principles discussed in this book will learn the science of the interview. With that science the interviewer will then hone the science into the art of getting useful, truthful information.
Interviewing to gather information is an art. The art is supplemented with scientific technique obtained from criminal investigators and professional psychologists.
In this book, I refer to those people who gather information by means of the interview as "professionals." Professionals obtain all of the knowledge available to a person, even if the person tries to avoid revealing the information.
I use the term "interviewer" and "professional" interchangeably as a description of the person who finds it necessary to gather information from people who do not want to provide the information.
Sometimes it will seem that I have written the book for police investigators, insurance investigators or professional private investigators.
The art of uncovering the truth draws heavily from the police sciences. The police science of interrogation draws heavily upon human nature and the skills of the conversationalist.
Interviews and criminal investigations differ more in tone than substance. Both are searches for the truth. Both criminal investigators and the interviewer want as much truthful information as is available. All investigators and interviewers wish their search to be thorough.
Police seek a "confession" while the interviewer seeks truth and information. While the police are involved with crimes, the professional is involved with evaluating risk, business opportunities or how to better control his or her life.
For instance, an insurance adjuster will "take a statement" from a witness while a police detective will "interrogate" the witness. A prosecutor will "cross examine" a witness while an insurance lawyer will conduct an "examination under oath." An IRS agent, C.P.A. or Certified Fraud Examiner will audit a suspected criminal's books while an internal auditor will review those books and records.
A mother will be curious about the activities of her child while an assistant principal will question the child to learn appropriate punishment.
A young man will seek information to find out if a lovely young girl is compatible. A lovely young girl wants to learn if the young man with overdeveloped pectoral and abdominal muscles has the moral character she wants for a mate.
The criminal investigator, the private interviewer, the mother, the principal, and the young girl are doing the same thing: gathering information. The name given to the task, and the tone with which the professional does it, is the difference.
The interview is the art of uncovering the truth. It does not necessarily have, nor should it be given, the pejorative sense of the "third degree." professionals do not use rubber hoses, hot lights or torture. Professionals do not have, and cannot use, the power of the state, the reputation of the FBI or the intimidation of a search warrant. Civil interviewing professionals are compelled to get the information they need by intelligence, wit, skill and experience. They put people at ease. The skill of the professional causes the witness to want to give information to the interviewer. The most important skill of the professional is to cause the witness to want to give information to the professional that the professional needs. When the interview is successful, the witness becomes a partner with the professional to uncover the truth.
The use of this book is not limited to police or other investigative professionals but is open to anyone seeking the truth. The techniques referred to in this book will help every person to better interact with their fellow human beings. Whether it is a spouse, friend or relative this book can help every person meet and interact effectively with others.
For whatever reason the information is sought, the person seeking the information, or the tone with which the interview is conducted, the techniques recommended in this book can help the information gatherer. Some of the techniques described in this book may seem contradictory. They often are. The technique that works with a nervous witness is ineffective with the angry or "wise guy" witness. One method can work with one type of witness and totally defeat any possibility of obtaining information from another type of witness.
March 2000
Culver City, California
Barry Zalma
The interviewer who does not recognize the difference between a lie intended to flatter, avoid punishment, gain rewards or protect loved ones and a false belief that arises from a chain of inferences or reconstructive processes that are neither planned nor even accessible to awareness, has failed. Such an interviewer will never uncover the truth.
Psychologists report that there is a rich history of research dealing with false beliefs. Psychologist Stephen J. Ceci (1) gathered some examples that should be informative to every professional. Each of the examples represents a different set of issues. All make clear that memory is flexible. Truth about events are colored by experience and the need of the Witness to believe he or she is a good person.
ExampleIn 1990 the New York Times, on the occasions of the death of Tony Conigliaro, the one-time slugging sensation with the Boston Red Sox, wrote a long story on his life and career. The Times explained that at age 20, Conigliaro led the American League in homers, with 32, and by age 22 he was the youngest major leaguer to have hit 100 home runs.
In 1967 Conigliaro's career was nearly ended when he was hit in the head with a fastball by California Angels pitcher Jack Hamilton. Conigliaro's cheekbone was fractured, his jaw dislocated, and his vision seriously blurred. Although he was to return for two more seasons in which he hit 20 and 36 homers, respectively (after sitting out the 1968 season), eventually his blurred vision returned, forcing him to retire.
On the occasion of Conigliaro's death in 1990, New York Times sports writer Dave Anderson interviewed Jack Hamilton, the pitcher whose fastball had nearly killed Conigliaro. Not surprisingly, Hamilton expressed sincere regret over the incident. "I know in my heart I wasn't trying to hit him," Hamilton asserted of the pitch that crushed the right side of Conigliaro's face. After all, Hamilton said, there was no strategic reason for him to have hit Conigliaro. Consider two of Hamilton's recollections of that fateful pitch:
• "It was like the 6th inning when it happened. I think the score was 2 -1, and he [Conigliaro] was the 8th hitter in their batting order … I had no reason to throw at him." (Anderson, 1990, p. B-9)
• "I tried to go see him in the hospital late that afternoon or early that evening but they were just letting his family in." (Anderson, 1990, p. B-10)
Both of these "recollections" were wrong. They are more than wrong, for they represent a reconstruction that allowed Jack Hamilton to maintain his belief that he did not deliberately throw at Conigliaro's head. To begin with, it was only the 4th inning, and there were two outs, and no one on base - the perfect occasion for a brush-back pitch. Secondly Conigliaro was batting 6th, and already had amassed 20 homers and 67 RBIs that season, so he represented a real threat. Thirdly it was an evening game, so Hamilton who may want to imagine that he tried to visit the hospital immediately after the game, actually did not go until the following afternoon.
Hamilton told the Times that he thinks about that fateful day a lot and had to learn to live with it. He constructed an account that permitted him to view his role in the termination of Conigliaro's career (and nearly his life) as being more benign than it may have been on the fateful summer evening.
The professional interviewer understands that people remember what they want to remember. As time passes from the date of the event to the date of the interview, the witness has the opportunity to construct a memory that is easier on the conscience. The statements, like those of Mr. Hamilton, are false but the witness relates them honestly and with conviction.
The interviewer who recognizes this fact of human nature will not rely solely upon the statements of the witness but will continue the investigation until the statements of fact are corroborated. Without corroboration a statement by a witness is useful only as an indication that more investigation is needed.
Example
A letter to the editor of the Gannett Newspapers Television Trivia Column, Ask Inman, published a letter from a reader inquiring about the details of a show from his youth that he thinks he can remember. What he remembered appears to have blended memories from three different shows that aired around the same time.
"Dear Inman: Was there ever a TV series called 'The Survivors"? I remember it was about some people who'd been stranded on an island in an airplane crash. I also remember Lily Tomlin appearing on it before she was anybody. Could the time period be around 1969 or 1970? - Rick, Great Falls, Montana"
"Dear Rick: Gee, you've managed to remember most of the ABC Monday evening lineup from the Fall of 1969 and mix all of the shows together . . . The show you mention, 'The Survivors,' was a 'Dynasty' style soap opera . . . It starred Lana Turner . . . Her biggest problem was protecting her teenage son Jeffrey (Jan Michael Vincent) from the other sleazy members of her family. The second show about people stranded on an island was called 'The New People,' and it aired just before 'The Survivors.' The 'New People' were a bunch of teenagers who crash landed on an island where a city had been built for the purpose of atomic testing, so they already had shelter, stop lights, etc. And the third show, the one with Lily Tomlin, was called 'The Music Scene.'"
This example explains how time confuses memory. Rick was not consciously deceitful. Rather, he was relating his memory, confused as it was. The interview that relies solely on the statements of an eye witness without corroboration is seeking problems. Relying on memory like that of Rick's, that took three different things and merged them into one, can make an interviewer look foolish.
Example
Even Sigmund Freud himself was subject to false beliefs. Freud learned that he had inadvertently taken credit for an idea of a colleague's that the latter had shared with him several years earlier. The result is now politely referred to as "cryptomnesia."
Freud wrote that while he was developing his theory of original bisexuality, a friend reminded him that he had told Freud of the idea years earlier. Freud wrote:
One day in the summer of 1901 I remarked to a friend with whom I used at that time to have a lively exchange of scientific ideas: 'These problems of the neuroses are only to be solved if we base ourselves wholly and completely on the assumption of the original bisexuality of the individual.' To which he replied: 'That's what I told you two and a half years ago at Breslau when we went for that evening walk. But you wouldn't hear of it then.' It is painful to be requested in this way to surrender one's originality.
Even a professional interviewer, the father of psychoanalysis, found he had created a false memory. He learned, and taught, that the interviewer must assume any person can create a false memory. The professional must guard against these false memories by careful questioning and a complete investigation to corroborate statements made by the Witness before the interviewer relies on the truth of the statements.
Example
A final example comes from a highly experienced clinical psychologist, a diplomate of the APA. In 1954, at the age of 14, he was shooting a .22 rifle at a garbage dump. He had no prior hunting experience, and when he saw a large dog wander by, he decided to shoot at it. He shot the dog, and immediately felt remorseful because it would not die; it lay there convulsing. So he shot it several times more to hasten its death and put it out of its misery. Today, he remarks that this was "one of the most shameful moments of my life."
In 1968, at the age of 28, the psychologist was in Hawaii, awaiting orders to go to Vietnam. After a week-long wait (because of a delayed briefing), he began to develop a "memory" that he had once murdered a homeless person with a .38 revolver that belonged to a friend's father. He and his friend had often handled his father's revolver, and he recalled exactly what it looked like. He began to recall that after he committed the murder, he buried the revolver in his basement. No one had ever discovered the murder, and he had no prior memory of it until the week in Hawaii. Eventually, he realized that his memory of the murder was a delusion. If he had buried the revolver in his parent's basement his father would surely have noticed the hole in the cement floor (painted gray) and confronted him with it. His friend's father would have noticed the missing weapon, too. In trying to problem-solve the basis of this delusion, he wrote:
"I don't know if killing that dog was the basis for my delusion, but what else could it have been? And isn't it likely that it would arise during a period of anxiety when I was on my way to war? I consider myself fortunate in having a concrete floored basement and a father who would have called me to account for a hole in the floor -- reality factors that no doubt kept me out of psychosis." ["Memory Distortion" at page 94]
Each of these examples reveals an aspect of false beliefs, the confusion between real and imagined sources of input into the memory system. The television viewer, the California Angels pitcher, Sigmund Freud and the clinical psychologist all forgot one or another type of mental activity that they had invested in thinking about non-existing events. They set up the conditions to subsequently and erroneously believe they had actually experienced those events that served a personal need. The psychologist was afraid of serving in a war zone; Jack Hamilton, the Angels' pitcher needed to believe he hit Conigliaro "accidentally," and Dr. Freud did not want to believe he stole another's idea.
Suggestibility
Freud's seduction theory - claiming that reports of childhood sexual abuse by many of his female adult patients were false, reflecting their inability as children to distinguish reality from fantasy - has never received persuasive support. Many psychologists have argued that it is invalid, a reflection of a prior era's refusal to accept the reality of intrafamilial sexual abuse.
If Witnesses are asked to judge whether they had actually said a word, or had imagined saying it, psychological studies show that 6-year-olds have more difficulty discriminating between these two possible sources of their memories than do 9-year-olds and adults. The reason offered for younger children's greater difficulty in distinguishing between memories of their self-generated fantasies and memories of their actual behaviors (so-called realization judgments) is that the cues involved in differentiating between actual versus imagined events are not well developed before late childhood.
Psychological source monitoring studies suggest that children could be susceptible to a wide range of misattributions, some of which involve confusing actual events with suggested events when these are perceptually and semantically similar. These claims remain speculative.
The professional who believes children cannot lie can never be thorough. Children, who can easily be confused by what others tell them or by leading questions, must never be relied upon without corroboration. Studies reveal that some of the things that psychologists might do in therapy or in repeated interviews could taint a young child's understanding of the past. For example, if an interviewer wants to retrieve only the memory of that actually observed by the Witness and their methods involve "memory work," imagery inductions, or fantasy play the results may be incompatible with the needs of the interviewer. To the extent that such techniques actually overwrite part of a child's biography, and to the extent that an accurate knowledge of the child's past is important to verifying the accuracy of a child's statements, the interviewer should be wary of using such techniques.
The psychological studies lead the professional to conclude that eye witness testimony is unreliable and the child eye witness is most unreliable. The professional whose investigation requires eye witness testimony to be accurate must corroborate the statements. The professional corroborates the statements by:
Documentary evidence.
Video tapes of the incident.
Photographs.
Other eye witness testimony.
Without corroboration the professional cannot rely on the eye witness statements. A professional must be both a skilled interviewer and a skilled investigator.
Innocent Deception & Lies
Lies and deceptions come in many shades. They occur ubiquitously in normal life. Deception is necessary for a private life. White lies allow smooth social functioning.
Not all deceptive witnesses intend to harm anyone. Some are ordinary individuals trying to get services or money they think they need. How does the objective interviewer interpret deceptive behaviors, contradictory information and suspect statements? When do mistakes, misinformation and misspeakings become lies? When does a white lie become pathological? When does distortion become a deception?
Lorne Pankratz, in "Patients Who Deceive, Assessment and Management of Risk in Providing Health Care and Financial Benefits" said:
I consider distortions to be those colorings of truth that result from observing the world through the tinted glasses that all of us wear. Deceptions, on the other hand, are the pictures carefully painted to lure others into seeing a new reality. These pictures provide a background, create a mood, capture attention, and display a story. The assessment process requires an evaluation of what information each picture distorts, manufactures or withholds.
The distortions that arise from ordinary tintings must be understood to avoid labeling them as abnormal and deceptive. … social factors, the patient's emotional state, belief factors, and unintentional errors complicate matters for both the patient and the clinician.
The professional interviewer, like the clinician Dr. Pankratz speaks about, must cut through distortions to uncover the truth. The interviewer must discover the difference between distortions to deceptions.
Distortions are not lies. Distortions are as dangerous to an investigation as a lie. The professional interviewer recognizes that the interview is a tool. The tool must never be the only tool. The results of interview -- because of the need of many people to deceive -- must always be corroborated. Statements of fact must be challenged. The professional interviewer will never accept a statement made in an interviewer as gospel. An interview is an essential tool to find truth. Coupled with investigation, corroboration and information gathered with a large dose of skepticism certainty can be assured.
1. In the book, "Memory Distortion," Harvard University Press, 1995, Chapter 3, pp. 90 -125 the examples cited are recited.